Buyer beware, the minefield of buying a used PC/laptop

[mikkh]

If you don't know anything about computers, the chances of picking up a genuine value for money machine are practically zero.

There are so many dreamers, ill informed and just plain greedy conmen about, it's frightening and it makes me ashamed to be associated with them.

Worst offenders are dealers selling multiple machines with what looks like a think of a number policy that bears no relation to anything at all.

Just seen a classic case, where the dealer in question is either stupid or deliberately playing on a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and trying to fool people.

As a general rule of thumb (for older CPU's) an i3 CPU was dual core, i5 was quad core and i7 was a better quad core.
The waters are muddied a little with modern variants, where an i3 could be quad core, an i5 could be hexacore (6) and so on.

Anyway back to our DelBoy friend who seems to have applied the above principle (without checking obviously) but for every rule of thumb, there are always exceptions and back in the early days of i5 CPU's there were also several dual core variants, mostly for laptops and a bit of a dirty trick by Intel themselves. People would see i5 and assume quad core.

At least he was honest enough to put the exact model numbers and amongst several i3 machines with starting bids of £30, he'd got a lone i5 with a starting bid of £100!
A quick Google on the model number and it turns out this "i5" is one of the dual core variants and because it's an older CPU, it was half the speed of the i3's !!

Someone is going to be very disappointed if they buy that, not only is it NOT a quad core, it's a very slow dual core.

I watched the first i3 bidding go to (and finish at) £51 and thought at least he/she's got something close to a bargain, but the poor sucker who's already met the £100 starting bid of the "i5" is getting well and truly screwed.

[mikkh]

This continues to annoy me and was magnified by dipping into Facebook Marketplace recently - something I rarely do because it's full of people with very little technical knowledge and even less knowledge of how to create an advert of more than a few words or include meaningful good quality photos.

There's always the " I paid £1000 ten or more years ago, so looking for £500" brigade who are puzzled by no replies and genuinely believe they are offering a bargain. The depreciation of computer hardware is not quite as severe as the smartphone market where anything over 3-4 years old is basically junk. A ten year old PC can still be useful, but only if it was a good quality one at the time. Any budget PC from a decade ago is strictly a better than nothing option and worth no more than £50 - not £500!

Then we have the let's tag 'gaming' to the title and hope to rope a sale in that way people. There are obviously true gaming computers with high end components and the all important good graphics card, but most of the ones I see are very ordinary old office type PC's quite often with the parts transferred to a more modern case with pretty lights and definitely NOT gaming computers. I would estimate as many as 9 out of ten 'gaming PC's' I see are not fit for purpose.

In the same vein we have those who add 'fast' and then contradict themselves by naming the components which are anything but fast. If you add 'fast' to a computer advert, it just seems like over compensating and is a relative term anyway. What most people call fast (computer wise) I would call below average or just downright slow in most cases.

No longer working but I'm sure it's a simple fix for someone £100 . I love these sort (sarcasm) It "could" be a simple fix and I have had many apparently dead PC's given to me or I've bought myself cheap that I've resurrected in the past. But it's a risky business if an expensive part needs fixing/replacing. I don't mind taking on the challenge if it's a half decent machine, but most of these seem to be old computers I wouldn't give £30 for fully working, so why would I pay £100 for a broken one?

A new twist on that I saw yesterday was a screenshot of a Windows failed to boot message but otherwise fine! That's a big fat assumption when faulty hardware is often the cause of these errors. I was almost tempted to take that one on but it was a pretty old machine with quite a hefty price tag and I'm pretty sure it would need parts.

Moral of the story? Facebook Marketplace is not a good option for sourcing old PC's unless you're very lucky and spot a genuine bargain amongst all the crap.

[mikkh]

Seeing as I'm basically talking to myself (and answering myself worryingly) with the lack of traffic nowadays - let the rant continue....

A new from your (eBay) saved sellers email arrived today and a typical blinded by the light "gaming" PC caught my eye.


1) Tempered Glass RGB PC Case

2) Intel i5 min 3.0 GHz

3) H61 Motherboard

4) 8 GB super-fast DDR3 Ram

5) New 240 GB SSD Solid State Drive

6) 500 GB HDD

7) Brand New Genuine 2 GB GDDR5 GT 710 Graphics Card - hang on while I stop laughing, OK deep breath, carry on with list...

8) Minimum 300 Watts Power Supply 80+

9) USB wifi dongle 300 Mbps

10) 2 x 19' monitors joined together with stand.


The picture looks very impressive to the untrained eye and will definitely attract a lot of attention, but it's all smoke and mirrors and definitely not a gaming PC, or even a good office PC.

1) Obviously unbranded, but it has pretty lights on the fans and a transparent side that immitates better quality real gaming cases - probable cost around the £20-25 mark.

2) Doesn't actually name the CPU, but I can guarantee it's 2nd or 3rd generation (11th is the most current) and at least a decade old - probable cost £20 or less.

3) Further proof it's an old CPU, because that type of motherboard was common around a decade ago - and it was a cheap budget one back then costing about £40.

4) Super Fast! Oh dear, it's adequate at best and definitely not fast compared to the newer DDR4 - probable cost £30.

5) Generic/unbranded without a doubt, but 'super fast' does actually apply here ;o) - probable cost £25 or less.

6) Old mechanical drive with many years of use, might get 2 years max before it fails - probable cost literally peanuts but lets be generous and say £5.

7) Ah, my favourite bit!
Brand new (but released in 2016) Genuine (nobody would fake this very poor card)
2 GB which won't really help much because it can't process data quick enough and becomes a bottleneck in the system.
I can't stress how bad this graphics card is, but don't take my word for it.
Here's what Tech Advisor said back in 2016 about this (then) £30 card....
Ideal for those who want to add extra outputs to an existing PC, the new GeForce card costs less than a decent game - but don’t try using it to play one. And then they gave it 3.5 (out of 5) stars !!
With the current graphics card shortages it's probably some ludicrous price now and definitely not worth it.
Compared to the modern APU's (CPU and graphics combined) it's 3 times slower than a Ryzen 3 3200G, even the ultra cheap AMD Athlon 3000G walks all over it.
In case I haven't made it clear AVOID THE NVIDIA GT 710 LIKE THE PLAGUE.

8) Well seeing as AMD were recommending a 400W PSU about 20 years ago, that is not much of a plus point and 80+ is the bare minimum standard found on the very cheap PSU's - probable cost £10.

9) Throw in a cheap wi-fi dongle. 300 Mbps is the old N standard released back in 2009 - probable cost £5.

10) This is actually a clever bit of upcycling. Take two old 19 inch monitors that nobody wants these days, join them together with a bracket and produce an ultrawide screen.
Pity the older monitors had quite thick bezels that ruin the effect a bit, but it still looks pretty cool. He sells these monitors on their own in separate listings for £70.

I don't need to tot up the totals to know that comes nowhere near the £300+ he's asking for the full setup, but that's not the problem, it's the fact he's selling an illusion dressed up as a gaming PC, which it definitely isn't in anything but looks.

[mikkh]

... and probably the most annoying thing, I currently have 4 PC's on eBay for ridiculously low prices (3 @ £50 or less) and I can't seem to shift them.

I know it's Summer and not the best time to sell computers and I do have them pick up only because I don't like posting them and prefer to show them working, but it's not like I live in a remote area in the East Midlands. There is a potential customer base of several million within an hour or less drive time.

I did sell one other a few weeks ago, but I'm beginning to wish I hadn't because he's one of those people who thinks £40 also buys a lifetime of free support and he's rang or contacted me a LOT!

I've put Linux on them which obviously puts some people off, but I deliberately put Windows 10 on the best one a few weeks ago to see if that helped - and it doesn't basically. Lot more watchers on that one, but still no sales.

Good job I'm not relying on those sales to eat, because I'd be pretty hungry by now!

[mikkh]

And my turkey of the week goes to techtradeuk on eBay
"Please note, this Ebay store specialises in selling customer returns, damaged and faulty products therefore items will come with some or a lot of wear, damage and faults."

That's fair enough if the prices reflect it, but they don't and actually adds insult to injury especially with this particular beauty....

Samsung N150 netbook running Windows 10!
For the uninitiated it was (over a decade ago) a very poor budget netbook that originally came with a special cut down version of Windows 7 to try and make it run a bit faster.
It still couldn't even handle that and I had the unfortunate pleasure of reinstalling several of them back in the day.
I can only imagine the pain of installing Windows 10 on it - several hours for the main install, at least, and then hours more for updates if they bothered to do them.

They admit in their description it might not (definitely won't) run Windows 10 very well and there is an option of installing Linux Mint instead to speed it up.
Out of the frying pan into the fire! Linux Mint is one of the heaviest versions of Linux and while it will be faster than Windows 10, they should have offered a specialist 'lite' version of Linux to make it borderline usable.

Price is £45 (I would begruge paying 45p almost) well £50+ with shipping and it doesn't come with a power adapter, so that adds another £10+

I'm all for recycling, but those N150's are just junk not worth bothering with.

[mikkh]

Idiot or conman of the day goes to some joker on Facebook marketplace.

He somehow believes a second hand 500 GB HD is worth £45, he also doesn't realise the date code is easily researched and reveals it to be 2008!

There's also a fair chance that it's an old school IDE (PATA) drive that can't be physically connected to a modern machine.

And he obviously doesn't realise a brand new 2 TB (SATA) drive (4 times the capacity) is £2 cheaper on Ebuyer either.

I could put this down to genuine lack of knowledge, but he also has a 160 GB one for £30, so I have to assume it's a blatant attempt to fool people with even less knowledge than himself.

Buying second hand drives, even at reasonable realistic prices is a big gamble. Don't even consider it, especially with current prices being so cheap.

[mikkh]

Clueless clutz of the day - it really amazes me how many of these people exist, goes to 'gaming computer' for £200 on Facebook MarketPlace (a rich source of amusement for me)

Our latest hero seems to think that adding a keyboard and mouse that light up somehow makes it a gaming computer!
It features the usual villain The GT 710 graphics card which is the worst graphics card in the World inside a decade old office machine with an equally ancient 17 inch square monitor.

It does have 16 GB of RAM, which is normal for a real gaming PC, but it's pointless in such an old PC - akin to adding a Ferrari engine to an old Reliant Robin!

The hard drive isn't mentioned, but I can assume it's a clunky old mechanical one, not a SSD that would give it a welcome boost.

Real value? £50 tops for the old Office (definitely not gaming) PC it is.

[mikkh]

Today's rogue trader claims such ridiculous nonsense I've reported him to Facebook, but I know they won't do anything about it.

"Still running Windows 7? We can make it 6 times faster by installing Windows 10."

Wow, he better have a magic wand to achieve that miracle because it's just not possible to make it any faster by installing Windows 10, never mind 6 times faster.

By adding an SSD and Linux I could definitely speed it up beyond recognition, but it's impossible for any OS, even the lightest version of Linux to make such a bold claim of 6 times faster.

Our deluded friend doesn't even mention adding an SSD, which is the only way (coupled with a RAM upgrade) that Windows 10 could run faster on a Windows 7 machine. And it would be a modest 10% or so, assuming the correct drivers for old hardware could be found.

And the biggest laugh, he claims to be able to do this for £10! I'm almost tempted to put Windows 7 on one of my old machines and make him follow up this stupid claim because I know that's hours of frustrating work that is more likely to slow it down than speed it up.

[disownedsoup]

Nice post mikhh

[mikkh]

Still torturing myself and laughing out loud at the jokers trying to sell PC's on Facebook marketplace and today's highlight is "Modern PC running Windows 11"

Catchy title, but the modern bit is kind of assumed if it's running Windows 11 and the CPU in this 'modern' PC is 10 years old and definitely NOT supported by Windows 11 - barely by Windows 10.

He's either downright lying, or has used some registry hack to make it accept Windows 11.

Another clue to it's age is the old school DDR3 RAM it has, but he's dressed it up in pretty clothes (new case with see through side and RGB lighting) to try and fool people.

Such an obvious con to the trained eye, but some will (literally) be blinded by the light and consider buying it.

At £369 it's about £300 overpriced and obviously worth the time spent transferring old innards into a new case for him/her, assuming they rope some sucker in that is.

[jazzazz]

There's a sucker born every 30 secs, LOL.

Now I have no problem buying REFURB'D items, like this CB, that was described on walmart.com as, "Manufacturer Refurbished," and came to the store looking brand new, works like brand new still (Purchased Jul 2018).

They saved me so much over a brand spanking new one, but that only came with a 90 day warranty, that I did what I hardly EVER do, I purchased a 2 yr. extended warranty, a NON-DEDUCTIBLE one, though I never did need it, its' cost (The warranty) was very reasonable.

[mikkh]

Double bonus today, somebody thinks a second hand Echo Dot is worth £70, despite the full retail price being £39.99 and Amazon having it almost constantly on offer at much less.
It was well below £20 in the Black Friday deals for example and is currently going for £23. It also looks likes it's been used as an ice hockey puck, so I think she must have meant £7

Moving swiftly on, we have a 'superfast' teller of lies and it includes the following amazing specs.... Superfast *and* amazing specs? this should be good!
Turns out the amazing specs are an almost decade old i5 CPU that is dual core instead of the expected quad core normally associated with i5 processors and would be a challenge for even Linux to correct.
I guess limping along badly on Windows 10 doesn't have quite the same pull as 'superfast'

I'm actually looking for a second hand PC at a realistic price, but the chances of finding one amongst all these dreamers is pretty slim.

[jazzazz]

Check out Chromebooks, you'll love them, so easy, and stupid proof too :-)

[mikkh]

Well let's see....

1) I don't like laptops of any kind, cramped keyboards, invariably tinny sound, deliberately under clocked CPU's, small screens, batteries that degrade alarmingly fast, chargers that fail often and totally non standard parts across the various brands - even from the same company sometimes.

2) Whenever I see 'chromebook' my first thought is weak hardware that couldn't possibly run Windows or even a heavyweight Linux with any degree of speed. I get they will suit some people and have made portable computing more affordable, but they're just not for me. If I need the internet when I'm out and about, I'll use my smartphone, but mostly I'll just wait till I get home and use a real computer.

Most of which is linked to my gradually weakening eyes needing a nice big screen and a full sized keyboard before I feel comfortable. And where's the fun in stupid proof, I like the challenge of figuring things out and enjoy making old hardware useful again.

I'm actually looking at Raspberry Pi for my next project, just for the experience, but I can see me selling it fairly quickly after a few weeks of 'fun'

I was offered a chromebook for £60 fairly recently, but it was one of the tiny 11 inch screen ones, so I declined but sold it for him for a small profit ;o

[jazzazz]

Mine is a 15.6" screen and I love it :-), but also will always have a desktop, but I can not ever imagine any SchmindosCrap again, LOL, now a MacMini (8G RAM 1TB HD), but still this CB is my favorite, for speed, security, for all I do. My next desktop may be a Chromebox. Gonna share a couple of URLs, that you may have to do that different NATIONs trick, LOL:




www.amazon.com/Acer-Chromebook-CB515-1HT-P39B-Pentium-Storage/dp/B076V3YMRY (Got this Jul 2018, MANUFACTURER REFURBED in the $200s)


www.amazon.com/s?k=chrome+boxes&ref=nb_sb_noss

[mikkh]

Luckily I remembered how to do it - add /n to the end.

The problem with looking at American prices, is that it usually translates straight to pounds and totally ignores any exchange rates.
Not as bad as it used to be, but I can remember the days of $2 to the £ and a $100 item cost £100 by the time it got here - very annoying.

The first link shows a chrome desktop and then claims to have Windows 10 as the OS and these stats below...

Intel Pentium N4200 Quad-Core Processor (Up to 2.5GHz)
15.6" Full HD (1920 x 1080) Widescreen IPS LED-backlit Multi-Touch Display
4GB LPDDR4 SDRAM Memory & 32GB Internal Storage
Two Built-in Upward Facing Speakers
802.11ac WiFi featuring MIMO technology (Dual-Band 2.4GHz and 5GHz)
2 - USB Type-C ports USB 3.1 Gen 1 (up to 5 Gbps) DisplayPort over USB Type-C, 2 - USB 3.0 Ports
4-Cell Li-Ion Battery (3220 mAh), Up to 12 Hour Battery Life

That seems fairly good for a 3+ year old machine.

I sold a laptop with a large screen over a year ago to a regular customer, who promptly put it in a drawer and declared it a backup machine.

I've managed to find another Pixel 3 at the right price and am going to do a bit of trading to get it back - hopefully.

[jazzazz]

"The first link shows a chrome desktop and then claims to have Windows 10 as the OS and these stats below..."

You mean the link for my CB I bought in 2018???

[mikkh]

Yeah that one, which looks like this on mine - and a warning it's out of shipping range ;o

Attachments:

[jazzazz]

Yes Britain might be a TAD far, LOL, but your end probably also has CBs and some now have more RAM and larger SSDs, but they are really meant for CLOUD storage.

I for one do not store STUFF on a device, preferring HARD media, like real books, CDs, my Vinyl Albums, etc. etc.

Just call me a DINOSAUR :-)

[mikkh]

Hold the phone, I may have found an actual bargain among all the overpriced under described crap on Facebook Marketplace.

He's done the sensible thing and sold the graphics card separately and possibly the m.2 SSD boot drive too, seeing as he states you will to download Windows.

That's enough to put most people off, but leaves me with a mostly built PC at a sensible price and unlike the majority of PC's advertised on there, it comes with a good CPU that is not 5-10 years old and has no chance of running Windows 11.

Still waiting for a reply, and I will check it thoroughly first, but this could be a nice late Xmas present for me )

[jazzazz]

Careful, there must be scammers on FB Marketplace, since they are everywhere else :-)

[mikkh]

It takes a lot to get past me, because I check everything and know all the tricks people try and pull.

He can't even be bothered to reply 12 hours later, so he's more rude than a scammer at the moment.

I've only got caught once when I snapped up a £5 bargain at a local flea market without checking properly (The old innards in a much newer case con)

Luckily I had enough old spare parts to boost it a saleable item, so it was only my pride that suffered that day.