Help choosing new graphics card

[movieman36]

Hi all you system builders. I am planning on specifying a new PC system to edit HD video footage. I don't intend to employ a hardware solution for video editing like the Matrox RTX2 but just use a high performance PC with plenty of ram. My question is, can anyone suggest a good graphics card that might suit my purposes?

My requirements are as follows:

I need to run two monitors with each at a resolution of 1280 x 1024 minimum.
I also want to hook up an LCD HD television preferable by HDMI (could possibly go the component, if that exists).

With regards HDMI out, most cards I have looked at that claim HDMI out are by use of a converter cable or dongle through one of the DVI outputs....no good for me as I need the two monitors running as well.

Card needs to be fast with minimum 512 graphics (prefer 1Gig). This will never be used for gaming so although the suggested card might have good 3D functions they are not overly important to my needs.

Any ideas?

My very basic intitial system spec is a high end quad core or even the new i7 processor. Minimum of 4 gig ram, possibly 6 or 8 GB, SATA 2 Hd's blah! Blah! Blah! (you can see I'm not overly bothered by the technical stuff providing it does the job) and probably Vista 64 bit OS (to use the ram).


Cheers
MM

[ken]

Depends on what you want to paY MM. The ATI 4870 will do all you want, but your talking around £200. The 4850 will do everything for about half the price. The 4830 is much cheaper, but I dont think they make one with the HDMI socket, just the 2 DVI. I dont know what nVidia are knocking out, I'm not a fan.

KC

[nike]

Hiya MM,

I have just purchased a new Gigabyte HD4870 with 1 gig of DDR5 and, the good part for your sake is, it has one DVI outlet, one display port (support for 2560x1600@60htz with 30bit [10bpc] colour) plus a HDMI port.

Check it out here. It may just be what you need.
www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2971

I'm running two 24" monitors on the card by using the DVI port for the primary monitor, and the HDMI port with supplied adapter both at 1920x1200 as I don't have a display port adapter to DVI. I think it may be just what you are looking for mate. You could always buy two of them to run crossfire like I plan to do soon. That way you would have ample ports for running all the external video devices you need.

It uses a Zalman Heatsink and fan assembly and has raised the internal temp in my case by 4ºC, so it's not quite as bad as KC's thermo nuclear device...lol

[movieman36]

Thanks for the pointers but what I need is to be able to run two monitors and an HD panel at the same time (three panels), two via vga/dvi and a third separate HDMI output for the TV. I have looked at loads of reviews of top end cards but almost all seem to skip over connection details in favour of counting frame rates and pixel shading performance for the gamers market. I appreciate that most of these new top end cards are based at gaming machines but the information available not related to the cards functions for gaming is thin on the ground.

The only possible solution I seem to have come up with which will obviously cost more is by adding something like the Matrox DualHead2Go

Here www.matrox.com/graphics/en/products/gxm/dh2go/

[movieman36]

Ah! see what you mean...missed the display port connection. Could get a display port/dvi adaptor for second monitor.

DVI to 1st Monitor, Display Port with DVI adaptor to 2nd Monitor and HDMI straight to HD tele.

Do you know if that card will output to all three connections (DVI - Display Port and HDMI output) simultaneously??

MM

[movieman36]

I have just downloaded the manual for the HD4870 and under the section about setting up the display configuration 'Display Matrix' it is showing that the card will only output to two of the three output connections at a time.....bugger!

[ken]

Sorry about that MM, I thought the 4870 and 4850 put out on all 3 at the same time. There are so many details, it takes a week to read it all. The 4870 x 2 might put out on all 3, but then your talking real money. Kevs way would be cheaper, using 2 smaller cards and Crossfire. Heat has become the worst problem with the big cards, that how I finished up with a Skeleton. Two small cards and Crossfire would give you a better cooling solution. nVidia has something the same as Crossfire, but they have a different name for it. It all depends on what one of the 2 solutions your motherboard supports.

KC

KC

[movieman36]

It's finding the answer as to if they would out put to three screens even with crossfire (or the nVidia version) that's the problem.....I can't seem to get a definitive answer...and that's from system builders and most manufactures of cards are not interested in answering any emails.

MM

[ken]

I have 4 x PCI-E x 16 slots on my Asus M3A-T 79 Deluxe motherboard with ATI Crossfire. I presume I can run devices off all of them. I cant see anyone needing 8 GPUs and 8 gig of memory to run a game on one monitor, but thats what it could do. I though the whole idea was for multi-monitor functions.

KC

[ken]

I think the Asus M3A-T 78 Deluxe is the same, but using nVidia technology.

KC

[movieman36]

I had always assumed that the crossfire setups were to double up any available graphics processing grunt...again for game frame rates and 3d effects?

MM

[ken]

That was the original setup, coming from the old cards that you could add memory to. I think they have gone way beyond that now. I checked the BIOS on this machine and I have 2 primary PCI-E x 16 slots and 2 secondary PCI-E X 16 slots. They can be either used as 2 channels or run together as one. What you might need is a similar board. Then you could use a PCI-E card on each channel, giving you the ability to run 2 devices from each card. I think you were looking in the wrong direction, its not the cards but the motherboard. You might gain more information looking at motherboards, rather than graphics cards.

KC

[movieman36]

I was sort of working of a triple display set up be it two cards or a single card or the MAtrox DoubleHead2Go route and then look at the appropriate mother board to hand it all on. I intend to get it built anyway but most bulk manufacturers would like to give you their solutions even though they advertise their systems as customisable. Hence I like to do as much research before specifying and ordering so I get what I want and not just what they want to sell me.

[ken]

Well there are the 2 Asus M3A-T boards that I have mentioned and I think will do the job. They are AM2+, DDR2, SATA II boards. There is the M4A-T 79 that is AM3, DDR3 AND SATA III. Gigabyte also make some boards that should do the job, both AM2+, DDR2 and AM3, DDR3.

Asus and Gigabyte do several other boards that will do the job, but you are going from very good to very expensive.

That should give you a good starting point MM.

KC

[nike]

Most of the modern top of the line Motherboards give you at least two PCI-e x16 slots MM, so there is no reason not to be able to run two identical graphics cards via crossfire or what have you. I think the main reason most system builders don't give you any information is that they can't. They've probably never set one of these systems with multiple graphics cards up. I'm going to have mine set up by next weekend, so i'll let you know just how it goes, and what can and can't be connected.... Stay Tuned for more !!! .... lol

[ken]

I think we are breaking new ground here chaps. I know I can set my BIOS to run 2 channels or connect them up as one. More than that is a complete mystery. I got 2 Crossfire cables with my graphics card, but I would need to open a bakery to want more heat than I'm producing now. You would need one hell of a power supply if you ran 4 x HD 4870 x 2's. Thats 560 watts, just to run the cards. I think it would be cheaper to take flying lessons and buy a Lear Jet.

KC

[movieman36]

I look forward to any news, advice or results from your dual card set ups. If I can get away with a single card that is what I will do, I don't actually need loads of grunt and a 1gig graphics, providing I can get the three displays working will suit my needs. I am only going down this route as my main PC is struggling editing HD footage but then again I don't think this ZX Spectrum I use now was designed for the job.

MM

[ken]

Kev has got his 2 cards set up with Crossfire MM, so we both might learn something in the next few days.

KC

[mikkh]

Crossfire has one slight advantage over Nvidia's 'SLI' for multiple graphic cards - it allows unequal cards, so you don't 'have' to use matching ones like you would with Nvidia cards. In theory you could use one with an HDMI port and another cheaper one with just DVI

... or so I'm led to believe anyway

[movieman36]

I think with the ATI based Crossfire set ups you have to use boards from the same series, ie. 4800's etc. You can't just mix and match.

[ken]

You will be happy to hear that Kev has got his 2 cards set up MM and you can use 2 devices on each card. As you don't need gaming power you might not want to have the overheating trouble or the expense of the HD 4870. A couple of HD 4850s would probably be perfect for you. I don't think the HD 4830 has a HDMI port like the other 2. You could put an adapter on a DVI port, but you could still run 3 monitors as well.

I haven't looked it up, but I don't think they have to be twins and you could run a 4870 with a 4830 or whatever. As long as they are both Crossfire cards your OK.

KC

[nike]

Yep, as KC says, it's all set up and running MM. I can now run 4 x Monitors, or, 3 monitors and a HDMI TV set, or, two monitors, and 2 HDMI TV screens, all at the same time.



This is what I see in Properties, Settings now, and this is what the guts of my case looks like now. And yes MM, you are quite right in saying that both cards have to be identical for CrossFire, you definately can't mix and match them.



The biggest problem I can see is the extra heat these dual Radeon 4870's produce. I'm going to have to do some mods to overcome this, but thats not a biggie as far as i'm concerned. If you were to use this system, you could build it to allow for the extra heat and cure the problem before you get it, if ya get my drift.

[ken]

I wasn't sure about the HD4870 working with it's smaller brothers, as its GDDR5 and the other 2 are GDDR3. I found out the the HD4850 GDDR3 works OK with HD3870 GDDR4. So it seems you can mix and match the HD4800 series, even with the HD3800 series. The memory doesn't seem to matter, although I would have thought that perhaps a HD4850 and HD4830 would be the best choice as they are both GDDR3. The HD4850 would give you the HDMI port and one monitor, the HD4830 would give 2 monitors. That wouldn't work out as expensive as going for the big one and would certainly be a lot cooler.

KC

[movieman36]

It's all looking very exciting
MM

[nike]

I'll have to have a chat with my little chinese salesman at the suppliers for giving me bum info KC. He was the one that told me that you need two identical cards to get the desired results... He must have just been trying to sell me the more expensive card... Still learning about dual cards myself ! It's what I wanted anyway...lol

Also, things are working heaps better now that the correct drivers for XP Pro x64 are installed. I was pretty disappointed in the 3D Mark 2006 result, which was worse than the one I did with just the one card installed. Also the Catalyst Control Center wasn't working, so I couldn't do any tweaking. Now I have the updated drivers, and the CCC is working again, I have been able to tweak them both, and it's all good.

[ken]

While looking up about ATI cards I saw a bit about mix and matching nVidia cards as well. You have to have newer models of nVidia SLI cards to do it, but they will mix as well now.

KC

[movieman36]

From what I have read (and I've read quite a bit now due to you two) in a crossfire set up, if you mix two cards from the same range but of different specs they will work, BUT they will both run to the lower cards spec?

I have found this compatabilty chart for ati crossfire cards, ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/charts.html

MM

[nike]

Ahhhh, that is what the chinaman was trying to tell me. Now it becomes a bit clearer. Thanks for the clarification MM. I don't think I need to do any experiments now, that sort of clears up the slight misunderstanding I had.

That sounds reasonable that the lesser card would dictate the performance, just as PC100 and PC133 mixed in a computer would result in the ram speed being to the lesser value.

Just as an aside to all this, if I were building a new setup again from scratch, I would go AMD Phenom II 940 with an AM3 motherboard and DDR3 ram. I'm not very happy with this INTEL rig of mine. Too many little niggly problems come up. I've never had this sort of thing with any AMD setup i've had in the past. My next build is going to be back to the tried, tested, and much loved AMD platform.

[ken]

I love the Phenom II 940 x 4 3000 GHz, but I running on Asus M3A79-T Deluxe AM2+, DDR2. Not the Asus M4A79-T Deluxe AM3, DDR3. Its a rock solid platform, I don't think Intel can match it and they certainly couldn't beat it. Having ATI graphics, its an AMD thoroughbred.

Mixed cards will only run at the slowest speed, that why I suggested the HD4850 and D4830. They are both GDDR3 and would give everything you need MM, without the high temperatures of the biggest ones. The HD4850 can run your HDTV. Your looking for high performance with the outlets and not gaming speeds. If you get into the the HD4870's, you had better take up baking as a hobby.

KC

[nike]

I've sorted my heat problem to a certain extent by installing a 120mm case fan in the top of my Antec P160 case MM. It's dropped the temps by almost 15ºC to a much more acceptable level.

Just be aware that not all these ATI Radeon cards have the ports like the Gigabyte ones do, so if you are buying another type of card, then check just what ports are on it. You may find that they only have 2 x DVI or one DVI and one VGA, with a round type TV out connector, and no HDMI port.

I purchased Gigabyte simply because of the three different ports. Now with two of them, I have increased flexibility with what I connect up to them.