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Post by jojo on Dec 3, 2014 18:36:10 GMT
Been looking at the current offerings. With M$ (Asking for a pay rise is bad Karma) going down the toilet in its search for increased profits, it's been on the cards that some new, possibly more specialised OSs would emerge. OK, the obvious one is Linux. But the reality is, You need to know what you're doing. I've put a computer in the bin because of Linux and the traps for the unwary are known to most who've used it. Found two which look interesting. Both in Alpha. One is a based upon Linux, intended principally as a games platform. store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamOS/Apparently Steam who are developing this OS plan to bring out a SteamOS specific machine next year calling it Steam Machine! They would be insane not to include some office software, not to mention email access. Hopefully M$ don't try to mane things difficult for Hotmail users. The other that looks promising is ReactOS. www.reactos.org/This claims to be aiming at windows compatibility: Things could yet be looking up for the PC.
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Post by mikkh on Dec 3, 2014 20:19:35 GMT
Reactos is a geeky experiment that is nowhere near ready for public consumption. It didn't even have real networking last time I tried it, which is pretty much a showstopper for most people - no internet, no use basically. It looks like one of those experiments to make ancient PC's viable, which is already covered by at least a dozen Linux distros
SteamOS is a bit puzzling as the steam launcher has been available for other Linux's for quite a while now and has had rather mixed reviews. It uses the WINE emulator and other trickery to emulate a Windows system, which makes it pretty poor unless using a very good PC. A distro dedicated to gaming has been tried before, even ones based around steam. None really cut the mustard and never will while trying to emulate another system.
It's only really the closed technology of DirectX that stops Linux playing Windows games. Games written directly for Linux using OpenGL instead of DirectX work perfectly at full speed. Look at all the Android (Linux) and Apple games available for phones and tablets, none use Microsoft closed technology, all work perfectly well using their native OS
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Post by jojo on Dec 3, 2014 23:36:53 GMT
Understand mikkh. Some excellent information as well.
Windows is loosing the plot though and a decent competitor could clean up I suggest. It's a sad reflection that the most reliable OS they have created is the one they seem so desperate to destroy.
I get the feeling that the future will lie in OS specialisation. Let's face it, Windows was designed for a networked office environment, where an overall master machine supervised many others. It is out of place in the home market really. This is shown most clearly by the number of unused services which can be turned off in XP.
I don't know what Steam has planned to deal with the problem of DirectX. I assume they must have some ideas. But they are a pretty big outfit with enormous resources, not to mention their huge catalogue of software for Windows, so it seems unlikely they are simply leaving it to chance.
My experience of loading a Linux distro and trying to use it as a platform is that it is fraught with problems. I'm not the world's expert, but equally, I don't think I'm so very limited. If I can't handle it, I doubt most people can. That is a big thumbs down for Linux. Shame really.
But taking Linux as a platform for a specialist OS may be the solution. From Steam's point of view they will have a virtually captive market, since it seems unlikely they will be encouraging much non Steam software to be workable. They will also have exclusive access to the user data, which much like merchandising at a pop concert, is the sweetest plum in computing these days.
They will need to be careful not to over milk the beast of course.
I have told my wife about the Steam OS because she is fed up to the teeth with Windows 7 on her laptop. I can't say I blame her frankly, it does crash a lot. She does like the idea, but wary to see how it works out. Her previous experiences with Steam on a rather slow Windows machine wasn't good. It continually tried to update itself and flashed adverts onto the screen. Even interrupting her games to do so. Strangely, others I've spoken to about Steam haven't reported quite as many problems or perhaps it didn't bother them. My wife hates war games and seeing some preposterously huge man shooting an ridiculously huge gun isn't going to impress her.
As for the ReactOS, that is a different matter of course, but time will tell. It seems like such a good objective though. Windows without M$! Though they may need to be careful with the trademarks. Apple didn't have a lot of problems taking the once mighty Beatles trading name.
To be frank, I found a number of competing OSs available. These two seemed to have the best prospects from what I can gather, though we shall need to wait and see.
I may buy another SSD and perhaps partition it, if either of these or some other alternative OS becomes available.
I would dearly love to try Linux of course, but with the plethora of traps and pitfalls for the unwary, not to mention the almost complete lack of reliable information, I doubt I'll be risking it again personally.
Anyway, these are the two I'll be watching for the foreseeable future and that means reporting back as I have info.
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Post by jojo on Dec 6, 2014 13:01:17 GMT
OK, Have abandoned any further attempts to try ReactOS. Suffice to say, after being spun around in circles several times, it seems it doesn't work on multi-core machines. The best suggestion, which I won't be trying, is to turn off Sata in my BIOS and turn on IDE. Then enter a load of code which someone claims to have designed for a Dell Laptop. These people, like those on the Linux forum previously, may revel in their geek image, but in reality, most of them don't know what they are doing. This is evident by the silly responses. I may not be the brightest spark around, but I know BS when I read it. ReactOS may have a small core of clever people behind it. Meanwhile, taking a look at www.haiku-os.org/forum
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Post by mikkh on Dec 6, 2014 16:28:14 GMT
Ah, the now dead BEOS clone project, you like picking the obscure ones don't you.
There is only one real alternative OS to Microsoft, Linux and MacOS and that's BSD - for home desktops anyway
BSD uses all the same desktops/programs of Linux and could be mistaken for it quite easily. BSD uses a weird partitioning scheme based on 'slices' and makes Linux look user friendly by comparison, so I wouldn't explore that avenue either. I've tried it on a spare machine and was left unimpressed - it looks and behaves like a geeky version of Linux with no speed or other benefits to recommend it over Linux
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Post by jojo on Dec 6, 2014 19:17:22 GMT
BEOS dead here as well. Also refused to run. For bother I was using a live CD. Just have this feeling that something in computing, has to give soon. M$ is taking the ****. There seem to be several out there. Mac is a non-starter for me. Steam looks a possibility, but is so far, just news. That, of course, is based upon Linux and I'm sorry to say, is the only way Linux can ever get past the numerous pitfalls. Really just looking for something that will run the sort of software I use. Appreciate the SteamOS will be games based, but they would be rather silly not to include at least a browser as well. Anyway, the only one left on the list that's worth looking at is OS2 www.howtogeek.com/190217/10-alternative-pc-operating-systems-you-can-install/I may still try a version of Linux, but only if I can get another SSD to run it on. I've learn that mixing OSs is risky. You will disagree of course and I respect that, but I don't have your knowledge. Mine comes from experience and when that includes a PC is the bin... you get the idea. Anyway, I got mikkh to show up at least. Great to see you mikkh, as always.
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Post by johnnybee on Dec 7, 2014 19:38:43 GMT
Sorry to chip in so late in the day fellers; I'm still running Mint v.13 on an old S775 P4 Dell Dimension, and TBH it runs well enough and it's been totally reliable up to now. A lot of the problems that most people experience with Linux is down to learning new tricks and a different "language" - very different to Windows, and a bit daunting for most people. One thing that niggles me beyond measure is Linux's insistence that EVERYTHING has to have a password; to me that's completely unnecessary, and to have TWO passwords - one for /ROOT and one for /USER is nothing short of paranoia. I just wish the geeks who write this stuff would include an opt-out function - after all, most users are homebirds who don't need to "protect" their systems - same as Windows users don't - but at least Windows allows you to bypass the password setup stage! On a lighter note, I installed Sabayon V.10 on an old 80GB PATA drive a couple of months ago, but never really got round to doing anything with it - I might just give it a tryout on the old Dimension and see if I can make it work the way I want it to work!
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Post by mikkh on Dec 7, 2014 22:06:34 GMT
I tried the OS/2 clone JoJo,that's pretty awful too, but at least it's semi usable in a geeky kind of way. I can't see me paying the 265 dollar price any time soon though.
Johnny l know what you mean, which is one of the reasons l like PClinuxOS. You can assign a null password for the user and don't get told off for using something basic like 'password' for the root password. You can use auto login in most desktops anyway. I'm using my new android tablet to write this BTW. Hudl2 from Tesco - nice piece of kit and not overly customised like some android tablets. Well impressed so far
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Post by jojo on Dec 7, 2014 22:47:25 GMT
I may yet end up using a Linux version. But not right now.
There is no reason it needs to be such a leap. On my last foray into the Linux minefield, I was attempting to do some simple enough activity that any computer user should be able to do. (Sorry I can't recall the actual routine). Anyway, there were so many different options and boxes to choose from, most of which are completely unnecessary for most users and probably most geeks as well.
It could be so much better if it were only a bit more user5 friendly. But sadly, Linux is not and none of its supporters seem to understand the problem.
So, we're stuck with Windows, for better or worse.
The OSs I was looking for were those which seemed to have the best chance of running some Windows programs or at least, have versions available. React OS seemed to be on the right track and SteamOS seemed to be prepared to offer a large library of Windows programs, albeit, mostly games.
BEOS was a bit of desperation really and the others, like mikkh says, I don't fancy paying anything. Especially for another another geek club.
(Incidentally, I have nothing against those who may see themselves as geeky. The pejorative use purely in context).
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Post by mikkh on Dec 8, 2014 22:53:56 GMT
I'm not so much geeky as technically inquisitive, I like to know why something's not working and have developed a skill of finding the correct information from forums full of misleading clever clogs who have zero talent in conveying laymens terms to less knowledgeable people. The sort who delight in devising the most difficult way to solve a simple problem.
Here's a good example... would you like to invoke the command line type in 'chmod u=rwx,g=rx,o=r myfile' or do you think it might be better to right click the file pick properties and tick the box that says 'make executable' The first example you'll see 99% of the time, it's as if they want to validate their own understanding rather than actually help. I often think they don't want an easier way to be available because it will downgrade their 'expert' status and make Linux too easy. I remember some bozo telling me to learn to love grep (a text searching/matching program) or get nowhere with Linux. Well Mr Bozo, I've never EVER had cause to use the grep command in 12 years of using Linux and somehow I've become quite proficient in it. And the day I learn to love any program is the day I commit myself to the lunatic asylum.
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Post by jojo on Dec 9, 2014 1:45:53 GMT
I apologise for using the term geeky. It has pejorative interpretation, but I was really aiming at the inquisitive natures of many. I really do appreciate your point and time was I felt very much the same. It got me doing some fairly good work in Electronics and other fields in the 70s. Also, I learnt FORTH at one point in the early 80s. My wife's father and mother told me endless stories of how my wife used to take everything apart. They even showed me a rather nice old clock which a great grandfather had brought when he emigrated to their country from Belgium at the start of the 20th century and which my wife apparently had taken to bits then didn't know how to put together again. (And we've all done that). But it isn't what I'm looking for now. Not because I have anything against enquiry, far from it. I frequently problem solve things when I can be bothered! I'm looking for an OS which will lead me through my daily tasks, reading the news, Googling lots of new things, wandering the news forums and ranting for a while, popping into FaceBook or Ello to read the junk and write even worse, playing some games and lately, watching a bit of tv, just to fill the evening. (Plus I can do that with my feet up and that gets important eventually). (It'll happen to you!! ) I am tired and fed up with having to check my wife's computer every so often, because some M$ function isn't working properly or some idiot tells her life will be better if she presses a button or so. I appreciate many like the difficulties in Linux. I'm not for a moment suggesting they be eliminated. It's very useful to have that available. But having every one of them on offer each time, when you just want to save a file or look at something is tedious to the point of silly. You don't drive your car around with the engine on show and a screwdriver in hand. But I doubt many would be very happy to find their access was prevented. Linux is like driving a car with the bonnet open.
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Post by jojo on Dec 9, 2014 1:52:43 GMT
Incidentally, I recently treated myself to a game from Amazon cammed Alan Wake. Sadly, though it wasn't cheap, what it really was was a loader to install Steam and a code to download this game from them.
I don't like Steam because it imposes advertising and I don't see why I should be bombarded with advertising when I've paid.
But it has given me a taster for the Steam OS.
Provided they don't try to eliminate other surfing, and email, which would be really stupid, I think it might be worth looking at.
Granted the Linux types will object at loosing access to lower level functions, but no-one is stopping them using another Linux OS.
I may try it out on a separate drive.
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Post by mikkh on Dec 10, 2014 14:01:58 GMT
I do all the things you do, but the only games I play are via facebook and more recently via my android tablet. Anything internet related is exactly the same as in Windows which is why peoples resistance to Linux puzzles me, it's also safer and more secure and oblivious to Windows infections
I use XBMC (now called KODI for no particular reason) to access TV and movies. I can and have watched entire series of TV shows from the pilot onwards - I think 'Dexter' was 8 series (20+ episodes a series)
It takes me maybe 20 minutes to get a new Linux looking and behaving like I want, then apart from security updates I never have to touch it again
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