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Post by mikkh on Feb 12, 2011 21:53:14 GMT
What is it? It's the system info (permanently on the desktop) from Crunchbang Linux showing how light on resources it is - compared to Windows, and a lot of other Linux's to be fair 151 MB of RAM used for a whole (full featured) modern OS That is with nothing running though, it's up to a giddy 231 MB with Ice Weasel (Firefox in all but name) running. More than impressive I reckon And total disk space of just over 3 GB Even a trimmed down version of XP would struggle to beat that. It's got the full OpenOffice suite installed, a choice of two browsers (Ice Weasel and Google Chromium) Gimp (Photoshop replacement) A CD/DVD burning suite, VLC media player and a host of other programs you'd expect to find on a modern OS. And yes it's running the latest Flash and Java too. I've been running it most of the day - as can be seen by the 'uptime' and I can't fault it so far. It's based on Debian, but has nothing to do with the over hyped Ubuntu Viva Crunchbang!
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Post by ken on Feb 12, 2011 22:46:16 GMT
Very impressive Mikk; but the only use I would have for it, would be to put it on a keyring. It wouldn't begin to run any of the programs I use. Its alright writing these little programs, but what are you going to do with them?? I suppose there might be a market for disposable smart phones, for the gangland fraternity.
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Post by mikkh on Feb 13, 2011 0:32:13 GMT
Apart from games playing and I mean real games you have to install from a CD/DVD, it does everything I need it to. On an average day I might surf the net, play a few browser games on facebook, watch the odd TV program on iplayer or similar site, maybe download and burn yet another Linux CD and that's about it - well that's what I have been doing for the last 9 weeks or so since I broke my ankle anyway.
I don't do much more on other days - apart from fixing Windows problems for other people that is.
I have the capability to run office programs, extract photos from a camera, download music to an MP3 player, steal as much music/movie software as my hard drive can hold, print/scan things etc etc - what most people use a Windows PC for basically and all without any anti everything software running because it's not needed.
Your computing needs are far above what the average person requires from a PC, so I guess it wouldn't suit you, but it would a lot of people out there if they could wean their selves off their Microsoft addiction - and obviously on quite modest hardware too because of it's small resource use.
I've got one regular customer who just surfs and uses Yahoo messenger and somehow he keeps getting infected on a regular basis. Not that I'm complaining because I've literally made hundreds from him, but he could easily run Linux and save himself a fortune in the process.
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Post by elvisuk on Feb 13, 2011 2:37:13 GMT
It sounds good to me Mikkh as for KC he only likes Windows (M$)
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Post by ken on Feb 13, 2011 3:23:59 GMT
Yeah, I've only got 2 Tb of Red Hat running now Elvis. I had trouble with the other server ( Linux ) and I shut it down. That 1 Tb now has Windows 7 on it now and runs my simulator from a docking station. I could quite easily do away with Linux all together, but I keep the Red Hat server running just to keep you happy. It does a really good job with all my backups on a mirrored RAID array. I've got nothing against Linux, it serves it's purpose. Its no use running any flavour on the Super Beast, it just can't run the programs that I use. I dont want something to compete with Windows, I need it to replace it and it cant.
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Post by nike on Feb 13, 2011 9:01:45 GMT
If everyone used Linux, the script kiddies would be targeting it instead of Windows. Get real guys! I have a theory that the virus companies pay people to write viuses to justify their existence. Because Windows is used by 98% of users world wide, who would they target? definately not Linux or Mac, there would be no point.
Frankly, if they stop targeting Windows, my business would cease to exist. It's only from these attacks on my customers computers that keep me going. 95% of my work comes from virus removal, so yeah, come on Linux, become more popular than you are and attract the script kiddies attention. I'd love to dabble in the opposition if it meant more money in my pocket.
The NUVI's wouldn't understand what the hell i'm on about, but that is to be expected.
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Post by jojo on Feb 13, 2011 9:16:39 GMT
I would gladly run Linux if I could be sure I wasn't installing problems.
The last time I heard that somemversion was the best and most stable that had ever existed, it crashed my computer, leaving it unusable. I couldn't even reinstall Windows, because the CD drive stoped working as well. Ended up buying a new computer.
I can't afford to do that now.
If I can get some cash, I may invest in a second drive and provided someone can suggest a way I can physically select the drive, before switch on, I may install Linux on that. But I won't use a menu either, simply because I don't trust the people who produce Linux.
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Post by ken on Feb 13, 2011 9:32:50 GMT
Because of the miniaturization of Linux, NUVIfication will become widespread. The smart phone makers grabbed these small OSs and the script writers started playing games with them, as everybody and his dog has got a phone. These mini OSs are online and the viruses that infect them, will infect a large OS. The days of Linux being a safe haven from infection is limited.
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Post by mikkh on Feb 13, 2011 10:22:25 GMT
Interesting reactions and some valid points - but you all seem to have missed the main point The whole (Windows) World have accepted that 2 GB of RAM and 20 GB of Hard drive space is a bare minimum for a modern OS like Windows 7 which is basically forcing people to upgrade their hardware - What I was trying to point out was, that it needn't be that way and a modern Linux can happily run on much older PC's.
I wasn't trying to advocate Linux for everyone, that would be foolish and cutting my nose off to spite my face, because I rely on Windows users to make some extra cash.
There are two common conspiracy theories regarding viruses. 1) That the antivirus people themselves have a hand in it and 2) It's warped Linux users exacting revenge on a more popular OS. I tend to believe 1 more than 2, but I also believe that if Linux did become more popular it would remain virus free because it gets updated on an almost daily basis
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Post by ken on Feb 13, 2011 10:47:52 GMT
You forgot about 3 Mikk; viruses are written by useless antivirus companies, like Nasty N and MacAfee. Its the only way they can try to stay ahead of Avast and Kaspersky. Without success I might add.
I agree that the small OSs will run on very old computers, but the industry want to sell new machines and dont want you to use old ones. Just like cars come of the production line with rust built in. As the old machines drop out and get replaced with newer machines, it will probably get to a point where Linux wont run on them. I dont know if installed Linux will run on Super Beast. I know live disks just barely work; I would be better off rubbing two sticks together, lighting a fire and sending smoke signals.
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Post by elvisuk on Feb 13, 2011 14:07:04 GMT
KC Live thingy are only to give you an idea of what you get with Linux before you install it or not install it as the case my be
As for Linux or M$ you can run what ever you want i don't much care
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Post by elvisuk on Feb 13, 2011 14:25:28 GMT
H! Nike,
I am a user of Linux Mint & W7 mostly Linux Mint i like Linux Mint i do not work with computers much i do maintain 11 Linux mint computers for freands and there freands and they all have Windows on them as well and SAS, Mbam and C Cleaner, anti virus and the normal stuff that i put on their computers Open Office and so on and they have not complain about Linux being rubbish.
as for you, it is your bread and butter so you need them to use Windows i don't, it is up to them or you what you use. me Linux is better than M$ and Linux is Free as well.
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Post by ken on Feb 13, 2011 15:18:06 GMT
I just read your post again Mikk. A 20 gig hard drive wouldn't get you very far with Windows 7. I had a look at my mini netbook which is running Win7 Starter, the OS is 14.1 gig and the Program files are only 413 Mb. The Win7 Ultimate OS on Super Beast is 59 gig of which 3.51 gig is Program files. A wee bit bigger than Crunchbang, but with 6 x 3.7 GHz cores and 16 gig RAM, who cares. With 12000 gig on 6 internal hard drives, I'm not exactly scratching for storage space. The simulator has its own Win7 OS and runs from the docking station, so none of that is on the main C:/ drive. Thats Microsoft as well Elvis and wouldn't run on Mint, so I would be lost without Windows.
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Post by mikkh on Feb 13, 2011 18:51:09 GMT
It's not exactly the average setup though, is it? In fact it's pretty over the top even by hardware enthusiast standards.
I'm not knocking it, I've had lot's of capable, but barely good enough machines in the past and I don't think I'd fully appreciate all that extra power if I had it, so it would be wasted on me.
My idea of a good setup would be a quad core, 4 GB of RAM and a mid range graphics card costing about £100.
The average setup out there (or at least judging by the ones I get called out to) is a pretty humble machine, mostly still running XP and looking pretty dated even to me! I get to see a few a dual cores running Vista, the odd quad core which is mostly what I've built for them, but on the whole 65 to 70%+ are XP relics
I've still got that dual Xeon server I got from the cattle market (using it now actually) and there's at least five people drooling over it who've been to see me recently
Enjoy what you have kiddo, but it's in no way representative of what the average person has. I remember a job I did just before I broke my ankle. I arrived at his (very nice) house with three cars in the drive. Got shown into the lounge that was dominated by not one, but two over the top large screen TV's at either end of the room. Saw the decent size wide screen monitor and fancy printer at the side and assumed it would be a good PC running Vista or Seven.
He opened the cabinet door that was hiding the base unit to reveal...... a pile of garbage basically running XP !
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Post by nike on Feb 13, 2011 21:53:52 GMT
I understand where you are coming from Mikkh, and yes, Linux has it's uses. I quite like Linux Mint Julia, and will most likely install it on one of my computers for a play around, but you missed my point. As 98% of the world computers are loaded with a Windows flavour of some sort, It pays me to know what i'm doing with that OS. Most people who use Linux have the know how to fix their own problems, so I leave it alone. If and when I get some spare time, i'll tinker with a couple of distro's other than Mint. I already have eeeBuntu on a small ASUS Eee machine with a 4 gig hard drive and that leaves 1.2 gig free, unlike an install of XP Home which left 84mb of free space.... Is there any smaller ones that will run of this netbook that you would recommend?
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Post by ken on Feb 13, 2011 23:15:36 GMT
No its far from average Mikk, but I wanted to know how far I could go. I can only carry on building the electronics until the council give me permission to build a space shuttle on the parking area below my kitchen.
Building Super Beast has given me a lot of insight into fine tuning gaming machines and most of it is BS. I have got water cooling so heat isnt really a problem, but heavy overclocking is a lot of work for very little gain. The 2 x Radeon HD6870 graphics cards work lovely on more or less the default settings and its not worth pushing them much harder. Its a lot of bread if you burn them up.
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Post by jojo on Feb 14, 2011 0:12:08 GMT
When I can get some spare cash to buy a second drive, I'll come here and ask our resident Linux expert for a link to a stable version of Linux.
I'll provide a list of my set up, just to make sure.
I really would like to use it. But I've been bitten once.
I trust mikkh. All I need now is a second drive.
Incidently, I have a small, USB drive, 20 Gb. Could I use that to run Linux? Preferably booting from it, rather than my internal HD?
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Post by ken on Feb 14, 2011 0:34:41 GMT
There is USB Linux Jojo, but I dont know how good it is. If its worth having, I'm sure Mikk can give you a link. There are several that will fit on a Flash drive and I'm sure Mikk will know the best of the bunch. I used to have Portable Apps on a Flash driive, it was a useful little tool. It didn't boot though and you had to be in Windows to use it. It was good to use on other peoples machines, everything was stored on the Flash drive and once unplugged, there was nothing left on the parent machine.
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Post by mikkh on Feb 14, 2011 8:49:58 GMT
You could use and boot from an external USB drive *if* your motherboard/BIOS supports it, that is. Assuming it does, and it should if it's reasonably modern, there is a site called unetbootin unetbootin.sourceforge.net/Where you download a small program (for Windows or Linux) and then pick a 'distro' from the list of available ones - make sure your external drive is plugged in and the rest is automatic as it downloads and installs it to the relevant drive. The list of available distros seems rather strange to me, as it offers lots of previous versions of the same distro, which I can't see the point of myself when the latest version is invariably the best. Looking at the list now, I would recommend the following ones (in alphabetical order) Kubuntu Linux Mint Mepis OpenSuse PClinuxOS Puppy Sabayon SuperOS Mepis, PClinuxOS and Linux Mint are probably the best for newcomers Sabayon and SuperOS come with the most pre-installed software Puppy is definitely the fastest All worth a look at though and by using an external drive, you can just wipe it and try one of the others if you don't like it. Try at least two before the over hyped Ubuntu I haven't even mentioned yet, I can pretty much guarantee you won't like it and wonder what all the fuss is about
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Post by mikkh on Feb 14, 2011 9:05:28 GMT
.... and going back to the original subject, it seems 'Crunchbang' have been a little economical with the truth with their system info tool.
I ran the command 'free -m' which shows RAM usage in MB's and it's practically double !
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Post by nike on Feb 14, 2011 9:52:02 GMT
Hi Mikkh, I asked a question on the last post I made. As it was the last one on page one, you may have missed it. I'd really like to know your thoughts on this.
Quote* " I already have eeeBuntu on a small ASUS Eee machine with a 4 gig hard drive and that leaves 1.2 gig free, unlike an install of XP Home which left 84mb of free space.... Is there any smaller ones that will run of this netbook that you would recommend?
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Post by mikkh on Feb 14, 2011 11:58:25 GMT
Sorry, must have missed that one This one looks good - Simplicity Linux based on Puppy, which is an Australian based distro I highly recommend on normal desktops www.mediafire.com/?m3cwvg3qfv139w2I'm downloading it myself, but obviously it's not a fair trial on a desktop PC Do you have an external CD/DVD to use? because the documentation looks sort of non existent on how to install it
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Post by nike on Feb 14, 2011 12:19:07 GMT
Yep, that's how I installed EeeBuntu... I really don't like the interface for that distro, and I was hoping you would know a better, more user friendly one so I can sell this netbook and piss it off once and for all ! .... hehehehehe
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Post by mikkh on Feb 14, 2011 13:22:02 GMT
It looks good and I assume the netbook edtion (in the link) includes netbook specific drivers because it just looks like normal Puppy to me.
Another one to consider is 'jolicloud'
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